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It’s time that we get over the Dark Knight Trilogy. Yes The Dark Knight is a great movie. But Batman Begins is just a good movie and The Dark Knight Rises with it’s absurd plot holes and magic orphan vision is like Prometheus with a cape. The fundamental problem with Nolan’s ultra-realism is that it can’t support a man dressed up as a bat. Of all the fantastical comic book heroes, Batman is arguably the most realistic, but at the end of the day he’s a mortal wearing a cape, a mask, and driving around a Batmobile while firing Batarangs.
The two Batman films made by Tim Burton, while far from perfect, at least offer us a world in which Batman isn’t out of place. Christopher Nolan’s versions feel like The Bourne Identity with black motorcycle gear and a pointy helmet. That said, here are 10 ways in which Tim Burton did a better job than Christopher Nolan when directing Batman films.
1. The Costume – Michael Keaton has gone on record as saying that the Batsuit in his first movie was ridiculously uncomfortable and hard to move in. As much as that sucks for Keaton, it was great for us since we got the scariest most menacing Batman look to date. In Nolan’s films, Christian Bale looks like he’s wearing Motocross gear. Is that a Bat-Symbol on Bale’s chest? How can anyone tell since it’s the same color as the rest of the suit, and too small to register.
2. The Car – Burton’s Batmobile is a sleek black beauty with sick fins,and pop-up machine guns. Nolan’s “car” is what happens when an SUV and a tank get drunk, make love, and have a baby. It looks so un-batlike that Christopher Nolan wasn’t even legally allowed to call it the Batmobile. Instead Nolan named it the Tumbler after his favorite social media site.
3. The City – The Gotham City sets in both of Tim Burton’s Batman movies are beautiful stylized landscapes full of Gothic architecture and personality. Tim Burton’s Gotham looks like a twisted fairytale version of a film noir making the city itself another character in the films. Christopher Nolan’s Gotham looks like he just shot the movie in Chicago…oh wait he did.
4. The Music – Danny Elfman’s score for Batman and Batman Returns is up there with the scores for Superman, Jaws, Indiana Jones and Star Wars. Quick, now try humming the score to the Dark Knight! You can’t can you? Hans Zimmer is the king of “feel it while you watch, forget it when you leave” movie music.
5. The Detecting – Batman in the 1989 film has to figure out how the Joker is poisoning the public. He does this through clues, chemical analysis, -and basic detective work. In the Dark Knight, The Worlds Greatest Detective relies too heavily on Lucias Fox to help him out, and when Lucias can’t help, he figures out where the Joker is by simply tapping into every cellphone in the city. Batman or the NSA? You decide.
6. The Voice – Does anything need to be written here? Doesn’t Keaton win just by NOT sounding like he’s actively trying to crap his pants?
7. The Women – In Burton’s corner are the blonde bombshells Kim Basinger and Michelle Pfeiffer. In Nolan’s corner, we have the brunettes, Katie Holmes and Maggie Gyllenhaal. Is it horribly sexist to compare these two sets of women by their looks? Absolutely. Is it accurate? Absolutely.
8. The Harvey Dent – Aaron Ekhart is a great actor and he did a great job as Harvey Dent, but not even beat Billy Dee Williams.
9. The Flying Vehicles – Impractical or not, the Batwing just looks cool. When it flys up in front of the moon, what could be a cheesy moment becomes instead a thrilling moment of cinematic iconography. The “Bat” on the other hand, is basically just an ugly flying Tumbler without a functioning autopilot.
Below: The same scene with 50% more kick-ass.
10. The Humor – Tim Burton’s Batman managed to be dark, brooding and funny as hell. Lines like “Never rub another mans rhubarb”, “This town needs an enema!”, and “You weigh a little more than a hundred and eight” are all great comic relief. Christopher Nolan’s movies take themselves too seriously to ever give us anything that rises above “I’m not wearing Hockey Pads”.
The sad fact is that I could list a hundred examples and it wouldn’t do anything to change the minds of Nolan diehards. But there is a small group of us that can see through the critical acclaim and audience worship all the way to the truth: Christopher Nolan’s Dark Knight Trilogy may be good, but as an interpretation of the caped crusader, it is sorely lacking.
Oh and Nicholson was a better Joker…there I said it.
Not only is Mr. Zagranis spot on in his observations, if one is willing to further study the recent Dark Knight trilogy, they would see that its plagued with continuity issues and poor film making. Check out this link to see a video that points out just one action scene’s faux pas. https://vimeo.com/28792404
The action scenes are a jumbled mess with shots that are too tight and misdirected. The Transformer films were also plagued with that throughout and were hard to follow. Just look at what expert film makers say about Nolan’s film. They weren’t all that impressed either.
One of the problems we have when comparing the two sets of films is time. The Tim Burton films are dated and without the latest technology. We can easily notice some of the older special effects when we see it 20/20. To the younger crowd especially, the Dark Knight trilogy is modern and what they are used to seeing when they go to the theatre. Many can’t see the uniqueness of Tim Burton’s style, that his Batman is not just a cookie cutter action film, where the dramatic scenes are just a way to link from one action scene to the next.
Also, I really like Hans Zimmer’s style of music. He really captured the life of such movies as “Inception” and “The Pirates of the Caribbean”. Howeveer, with the Dark Knight series, it just stunk. Major lack of continuity and seemed to build and build to…nothing. It’s fair to say that Danny Elfman set a pretty high mark and Hans Zimmer had to try and make a score as iconic as Elfman’s. He just fell so flat. Mr. Elfman’s music gives you the sense of power, mystery, and was even majestic. Definitely memorable. When you hear the first few notes…da…da…da…da………da. It sends chills down your spine. You don’t have to see the titles on the screen to know what it is. On the other hand. Hans Zimmer’s theme could be a dozen other film’s scores with just the first few notes.
And for the knucklehead that cried about “it’s” and “its”…who cares? Typo…grammatical error. Pay attention to what is being said and not typos. As for everyone else. Stop watching film and liking a movie simply because you get a hard on over the action scenes. Understand the subtleties of storytelling and film making. Don’t be the “Me Hulk. Me smash” type of movie watcher. Some people have a tendency to say a movie is totally awesome (or whatever one might say) regarding a movie with questionably great action scenes, that lacks anything else (again…”Me Hulk, Me smash”). But hey, maybe we lost that in too many of today’s movie goers.
Realism is what makes movies great. The audience is far more concerned about the conflicts and the violence in a Nolan movie than that of a Burton movie where everything is fantasy, cartoon-like and silly. You never watch a Burton Batman movie and think “this could actually happen” which makes it a popcorn flick; fun to watch, but not really intriguing or engaging. Burton was all about style, whereas Nolan focused less on style and more on substance. The realistic take on the costumes, vehicles and city had a far bigger impact on the Batman character and story. The comics, video games you name it, have all used them as inspiration and has redefined the character and the genre as a whole. No one goes back to Burton’s movies to draw inspiration from those outdated movies. That blonde/brunette argument is one of the stupidest I’ve read, and I’m not even going to address it. After you said that Harvey Dent from those movies is better than Aaron Eckhart’s near perfect portrayal of two-face, you proved you are a nostalgic Burton dick rider. Who even remembers that Dent was in those movies? No one, because he had a insignificant role and if he wasn’t in the movie it wouldn’t impact the story AT ALL. Jets can’t fly that low, that’s why they changed it, and that’s why you can’t take Burton’s movies seriously. If you’ve read comics you would know Batman’s story is unlike any other comic book character’s and does not have humor, so TDK was not only more accurate but far better as overall films. Dark Knight Rises is still a top 5 comic book movie of all time, and far better than any movie Burton has made including his 2 Batman movies.
Burton’s Batman, spot on. Nolan’s Batman, only good for the roses. I have Batman begins and after watching it I was rather disappointed. It only caters for those who have fallen behind the times. A Superhero should think and not rely on somebody else to do it for him, that’s the whole point of being a hero. People go to see a movie to be entertained not sedated.
If you watch Burton’s Batman and Nolan’s Batman multiple times, it’s clear who made the superior comic book films. Burton’s Batman films had magic, subtlety, creativity and humor. My favorite scene from Batman ’89 was, and still is, Batman glancing over and casually shining a light in Vicki Vale’s face while riding back to the Batcave. My favorite scene from Batman Returns was the ballroom dance between Bruce and Selina when they both discover the other’s secret identity. That scene is still the most powerful in any of the live-action Batman films! Nolan’s films were largely devoid of imagination. They don’t hold up on repeated viewings like Batman ’89 and Batman Returns.
You snatched Nolan’s wig and I love it. Burton’s Batman movies are masterpieces; smart, witty, dark, original, creative, visually stunning. Nolan’s movies are typical modern Hollywood fluff; dumb, obvious, self-important, humourless, artless. I don’t even know if Burton’s films should be considered blockbusters or superhero movies, because they border on arthouse. Arthouse blockbuster?
To be fair I did enjoy the second one because Heath Ledger was excellent and Christian Fail wasn’t in the movie too much, but part 1 and 3 were unbearable.
Perfect.
Nılans movie yer great movie but just movie it has no batman s soul. Only tim burton’s batman real real batman. Just real batfans understand this difference
THIS IS THE KIND OF OBJECTIVE ARTICLE THAT I WANNA READ!!!! YOU ARE GREAT MAN!!!!!!
“Yes The Dark Knight is a great movie. But Batman Begins is just a good movie and The Dark Knight Rises with it’s absurd plot holes and magic orphan vision is like Prometheus with a cape”- Bandwagon comment. Batman Begins is the best of bunch and it pimp slaps Burton films alone, Dark Knight Rises is a great movie, the plot holes are just as bad as The Dark Knight if not better.
The women part is subjective, and Anne Hathaway just nails it beating any of the other actresses.
Aaron Eckhart did a fantastic job and is far better than Burton’s Dent.
The music part is subjective too, Hans Zimmer track is better IMO. I can still listen that inside my head.
Ok, if you can’t distinguish between the right “its/it’s” in the first sentence, how can I trust you’re that knowledgable, & how can I trust your eye for detail?
You’ve Nailed It!
Though I’ve issues with #8 since it’s basically a walk-on role not going directly into Two-Face in Burton’s, but…
Compared to Nolan’s slap-dash, vapid and gloomy overlong trilogy, almost every scene of Tim Burton’s original 89 Batman movie is executed like a work of art. It actually gets better with repeat viewings and holds up just as good today–if not better–than it was when first released over 25 years ago. The story-telling is linear, taking the viewer along for the ride, without the clutter and flashback crap of Nolan’s nightmares. Not only that, everything comes together and holds together with very little unecessary filler. The dialogue is fresh and original, and memorable. The film’s got none of that manic camera shifting and juggling for hyperactive, attention-deficit twits.
Made before the CGI-happy era of exposition and style over substance, even with its minor problems it still represents good, classic filmmaking. And the music alone blows away Nolan’s trilogy! I don’t mean the trashy songs by Prince but the Elfman Bat-theme which easily compensates for them. I Don’t want to hear about Heath Ledger again, either! “Oh he is SO good, he’s the Definitive Joker and deserved all 8 posthumous awards! Oh, you didn’t like Heath? You’re evil! You have NO respect for the dead?!” Oh, if only all druggies who died were as celebrated as he was! Compare Nolan and Burton–Burton’s a genius, there’s no comparison. And despite this I’m Not a fan of Tim Burton!
To me, Burton’s the one who reinvented the wheel. He’s the one who first brought us the dark character we love today.
Nolan refined it and did it well. He has a knack for layered plot. I am a huge Christian Bale fan and I thought he knocked it out of the park. But Keaton will always be my personal favourite and you have to give credit to the original man who took Batman from being a light hearted camp character, to a dark and intriguing one. Maybe it doesn’t look brilliant today, but you have to judge it from when it came out. It was far ahead of its time and his gothic touch was perfect.
I love that Keaton made the correct decision in not touching Batman Forever because Tim Burton wasn’t involved. Even when offered huge money who showed class.
I’m so sick and tired of people pointing out the “realism” of Nolan’s movies, and claiming the burton movies don’t hold up today… Nolan’s movies were dreary, and moody, on top of Christian Bale’s wooden performance, there were quite a few times i almost nodded off. Keaton was exciting, charming, and witty. He had a charisma that kept you engaged in what was happening. As you pointed out, Burton’s sets were imaginative, and his movies were dare I say it, far more entertaining.
When i watch a batman movie, i’m not looking for true grit, i’m looking for action, and fantasy.
How can Nolan’s films be better? Or even compared to the old ones? Heaths joker killing a guy with a pencil would have caused parents outrage in 89 or even 1992. Explain how Bruce trains for 7 years returns to gotham, the news broadcasts that Bruce is back and yet batman shows up and no one puts two and two together. Or how in both Batman Begins and The Dark Knight you can clearly see in the docks scene and in the Chinese building scene the actors standing waiting to be knocked down by batman. Hell, one guy is even pointing the gun just waiting in TDK scene I just mentioned. Don’t get me wrong I love both. The burton films have flaws just like the Nolan films. It bothers me that fans can’t see both directors and actors (Keaton and Bale) obviously had an interest in the character for different reasons. Keaton is still my favourite live action batman with Bale in second. Kevin Conroy kicks ass in the cartoons. Just accept them for what they are. Btw if you watch the special features on Batman 89 Bob Kane openly states had he created the joker, he would have made him responsible for the Wayne’s being murdered just like what was done in the film. Nothing is ever truly perfect my favourite comic book film is still The Crow with Brandon Lee. Even I see the flaws in that especially when compared to the comic. However, at the end of the day I rather have both the Burton and Nolan films over Batman Forever and Batman & Robin any day. Sorry for the long post, grammar, etc.
I have read many of the comments on this board and find it very interesting that most like one over the other. The films are over 20 years apart. Both are good for what they are
Tim Burton’s batman–is just that batman (not the Dark Knight) it is suppose to be funnier, a detective type.
Nolan’s Dark knight- is just that the dark knight (not batman) with darker story lines. More “realism.”
The dark knight and batman are not the same character. Go back and read the comics guys and gals
I have been reading the comics my whole life and I assure you Batman and the Dark Knight are the same character. The Dark Knight is his nickname.
Also not mentioned — Nolan’s films are a bit of a mess development wise. Especially in the second film where there are countless subplots that go nowhere. There’s also way too much dependance on CG effects and perhaps most disappointing is the fact that the Batman character is simply not heroic enough. Granted, Burton’s Batman Returns was dreary and Shumaker didn’t take it seriously. But the first film, albeit flawed, is by far the best version, with Batman begins a far second.
The women are the only thing Tim Burton had better. Batman Forever was the best of that series of movies.
Except that wasn’t Burton. Joel Schumacher had taken over when they made that one.
Batman and Batman Returns are the best Batman movies ever!
But at that time and era in ’89 and early ’90s
However now, Batman and Returns are a little old in the present world… there were no handphones, internet, LED monitors… etc. Batman was using CRT in the first movie.
I love these two movies, esp Batman for many years.
But now when I watch them again, it’s boring and tiresome.
Just as Michael Keaton who was 37 yrs old when he was in Batman and now an old man over 62, the movies Batman and Returns have also grown old and wrinkled with him.
But watching them again do bring back memories of yester years ! and how much we have grown… older and weaker!
No doubt Michael Keaton is also making fun of his own self in the funny movie Birdman.
Batman… I would like to see him portrayed as a crazy, bloodthirsty maniac of the night, psychotic to the core, as who in the right mind would dress up as a bat and do weird things in the night without a gun??
Only the crazy batman
Probably Adam West is the best Batman.. as Batman can NEVER be real and to me now, I think that Batman is a complete RICH FOOL with has nothing to worry about his meals, housing, money and women and instead do silly things at night !!
HA Ha…
Are you guys kidding me? This isn’t even a debate. Nolan takes Burton to the cleaners. The realism is what superhero films are about today. The idea of more realistic super-stories is what gives current superhero films the cutting edge and their place in hollywood, especially seen in the case of Nolan’s trilogy. I love Jack, but if you think he was a better Joker, you’re just delusional. Ledger was so deeply intuned with his role that it killed him. Plain and simple. Sure, Tim Burton entertained me as a kid, but I’m not a kid anymore, and superhero cinema of today is about the realism, the harshness, the believability. Every aspect of the trilogy trumps the old flicks, not that I don’t appreciate them. Burton can go back to Jack Skelington and Corpse Bride. I’ll sit here and watch some quality films.
I agree wholeheartedly Zach as good as the Nolan films were they didn’t have as much truly great elements in them as Burton’s two. Don’t even get me started on the overblown running time of the third film, timing how long Batman (i.e. suited up not Bruce Wayne – or should that be whine) was in the final film approximately 45 minutes during a near 3 hour running time it shouldn’t even be classed as a Batman film due to the hero being off screen more than he’s on!
Zachary is so dumb! I can not even believe that he prefers the old films. According to me he’s an 80-year-old man. :D
Any batman fan who didn’t like Nolan’s Batman is not a true Batman fan.
The Dark Knight is a masterpiece all the way with superb performances, awesome action and all that.
Nolan’s Batman movies are the one and only true live-action Batman movies, forget the Burton and Schumacher stuff that came before.
Sure Burton’s first one is a really good movie, gives us a Gotham ripped out of the 40s comics, but the negatives outweight the positives. One of those being that as great as Jack Nicholson is, he is just Jack Nicholson playing Jack Nicholson with Joker make-up. Kind of like how Kevin Spacy was playing Gene Hackman playing Lex Luthor in Superman Returns. Plus, he is too old for the character.
Nolan’s movies though, feel like a mix between O’Neil’s run from the 70s, especially the way Gotham is portrayed, with a touch of realism even Frank Miller and Alan Moore to Jeph Loeb. Add on top that Ledger’s Joker feels more like Joker playing Joker using the name of Heath Ledger, and you have the most accurate adaptation of Joker on screen. Plus, Nolan shows how you can have multiple villians in the movie (Begins had Scarecrow, Ras, Zasz, and Falconi, TDK had Joker, Two-Face, Scarecrow, and Maroni) and still have a focus on a central villian, something Burton failed to do.
And i have no nostalgic feeling for Burton’s movies as they are not good anymore. Maybe i did like them as a kid but not anymore since i saw Nolan’s trilogy as they are the true definitive live-action Batman and on par with Batman TAS and the 80s and 90s Batman comics.
You could still be a true Batman fan and hate the Nolan Batman Films. Everybody is entitled to their own opinion.
Jack a better Joker? get the fuck out of here! he was too old and pudgy to play Joker, sure he is a good actor but i didn’t see Joker there he was just Jack Nicholson playing jack in Joker cosplay. Whenever i think of Joker i think of Killing Joke, Dark Knight Returns, Laughing Fish, TAS and some others but not Jack. Joker is suppose to be 32 years old and Jack was 49, now Ledger was the right age and the perfect Joker.
Where does is it say that Joker is 32 exactly?
Because last time I checked Joker’s age is undetermined in the comics. So his age could be ranging from anywhere. And judging from how Bob Kane the creator of Batman drew Joker in the comics. It was pretty clear that the Joker was in his late 40s or possibly even older.
Therefore your theory that Ledger was right for the role and Jack was wrong based on their respected ages is moot.
Read some graphic novels and you’ll see his age as he is really 32 years old.
Whether you love or hate Nolan’s version of the bat universe (and honestly, it is either this or the god awful movies from the 90s, so it isn’t like you have a choice), you have to admit that Nolan knows how to put a multitude of villians and characters into these movies without them feeling forced. I mean, we have had:
Batman
Fox
Alfred
Gordon
Flask
Loeb
Two-Face/Harvey
Joker
Scarecrow
Ras’al Ghul
Ubu
Talia
Mr Zasz
Falcone
Maroni
Catwoman
Holly
Bane
Dagget
I’m honestly surprised he did not find a way to sneak Sionis and Thorne into the movies.
I know what he looks like in the graphic novels. I’ve read most of them. I want actual confirmation. As in “Written” on paper by DC or Bob Kane that says he was 32 years old. Since you seem to be saying that its some how absolute that Joker should be 32 years old.
Face the facts. Joker can be any age. It always depends on the writer and the artist of the comics. So there is absolutely nothing wrong with Jack Nicholson being in his 40s when he played the Joker.
I got a problem with Burton giving the Joker and identity. We aren’t supposed to know the Joker’s history. It is supposed to be a great unknown and is what makes him so weird and incomprehensible.
I read this as “anyone who disagrees with me sucks and is a big mean old poopy head!”
Ever heard of the “No True Scotsman” fallacy?
Of all the movies, The Dark Knight is by far the best. I actually hated both of Burton’s entries, and the first and last of Nolan’s. The only good things about Burton’s entries is Michael Keaton as Batman, and Elfman’s amazing musical score.
It’s a great article and i really like both movies. But in the meantime, we have to agree that none of the movies truly respect the true potential and identity of the cape crusader like in the cartoon. Batman is a great detective and he is very smart, he don’t want to rely on Fox or anyone else to solve a problem. None of the film show that. And for the martial art part, Tim Burton’s movies show some but in Nolan’s movie, I’m still asking myself what they wanted to show. And we all know that Batman is a ninja.There’s plenty of potential to explore for Batman and I’m still waiting for the day that I will be able to see My favorite Hero in a movie where every aspect of his capacity is explore
This is a great article, and gives a lot of good points. Both movies are well done. I agree on a lot of things, but the only problem is that both movies are very different. In a way, it’s almost hard to compare Batman and The Dark Night.
Humor. I don’t really watch Batman movies for humor, or any Superhero movie for that matter. Batman is funny- but the Dark Night has quite a few small….darker…jokes within it.
The Dark Night isn’t…well-creative- because Nolan
I personally don’t agree with BDW being better than Aaron Eckhart. Tim Burton’s Harvey Dent didn’t have much of a role to play, while Nolan’s Two-Face, again in my opinion, displayed a near perfect representation of a man pushed off the edge. But thank Talos you didn’t compare the Joker from either film. It pisses me off when someone says Nicholson was better than Ledger or vice versa, because you can’t technically call them the same character. As a matter of fact, you can’t really compare the movies at all, because they aren’t about the same thing. Yea, Batman was involved, but Tim Burton’s was more about Batman himself, whereas Chris Nolan’s was more about the icon of Batman, and what a hero like him means to people.
“But thank Talos you didn’t compare the Joker from either film. It pisses me off when someone says Nicholson was better than Ledger or vice versa, because you can’t technically call them the same character.”
LOL You missed the closing line, didn’t you?
I enjoyed the article and I love Burtons 89 Batman I grew up with those films. Returns is OK in my personal opinon not better than the first but I’m byast because Burton is my favorite director. I agree with some of the points made in the article. The car(hands down) batplane(hands down) music (yes) voice. The 89 started so much for the genre and holds up too this day perfectly.
My problem with them is there essentially about the villains than they are Batman. Batman plays second tier to his villains in Burtons films and is basically there to stop them. Returns should have been called Penguin Returns. I love Nolan’s films because they did bring something new to the genre that wasn’t there before. The Batman franchise was dead and buried after Schumacher. and his trilogy brought Batman back in a big way. Now they DEFINITELY have there misses I can’t knock that man but I am more than happy someone brought some depth to the Batman mythos on film that was never there before. I watched 89 Batman the other day and I love that shit hahahaha but I feel the same way towards Nolan’s trilogy like damn someone finally showed Batman the respect he deserved flaws and all.
So your example picture for bad Gotham set and Chicago is a picture of Pittsburg from TDKR?
That’s because it’s not Pittsburgh, numb nuts. Zagranis is right.
The issue is perspective. In Nolan’s world, all the bad guys of Gotham are nothing more than a bunch of “alpha-terrorists” on some personal Jihad. In Burton’s world, the same villains are encapsulated into their own sinister evil and ego is their main drive. TDK and DKR are pretty much the exact same movie repackaged and very slightly re-imagined to include the new characters. Meanwhile, each of Burton’s were fairly unique. I am saying that Nolan can’t see another version of Batman or Gotham or the villains because he lacks the imagination. :p
i understand your criticism and i understand your points. however, the nolan’s version is more realistic than the burton’s version and there is the fact of not being consistent with the same actor playing batman. nolan’s version wins hands down.perhaps you need to look at what marvel is doing with thier own version of their heroes, they are portraying them as being more realistic, than being stock in too much fantasy.
Yes Nolan’s IS more realistic. Thats why they sucked. its a SUPERHERO movie. realism makes it bad. Nolan’s is the WORST portrayal of Batman HANDS DOWN. It was so bad it made Batman and Robin look good.
I like Batman….period. Good qualities for all of the movies EXCEPT for Clooney’s nipple costume, Arnold’s Mr. Freeze and Alicia Silverstone’s whatever she was supposed to be. Personally, Batman Begins is my favorite because of the story line and the conversion of BW into Batman from the sad boy to the confused young man to the development of his fighting skills to the final incarnation of the Batman as the crusader.
I like the comic book styles of the pre-Nolan trilogy and the darkness of Nolan’s movies, especially the consistency of having the same director. Long live Batman!
Burton’s Batman vs Nolan’s Batman – obviously that’s comparing apples to oranges. Personally, I liked both. Each had their own interpretation that worked with their story format.
This is what happens when nerds get jealous and drink wine coolers and pina coladas. They have to compare everything in terms of which is better. Burton’s version was campy and cartoony. Still it was a good version and often very creepy. Nolan’s version is different because it seeks to portray Batman as a possibility in the real world.
Well I like both versions and feel that Tim Burtons unfortunitly got lumped with Joel Shoemakers garbage. Tim Burtons was a comic book for the screen where Nolans was a commic book charecter on the screen. Difference is Burton created a comic book world where Nolan put the charecter in the world we have. Burton was truer to the comic book where Nolon was trying to make a realistic version of a comic book, but comic books are not necissary realistic. For the record Keaton was a better Batman but Leager was a better joker.
Everyone’s entitled to their opinions. There are so many ways to interpret Batman that it’s not really valid to say Burton’s versions are better than Nolan’s or vice versa. The grounded reality works for a gritty frank miller style universe. But Burton’s Batman would fit int the characters like Killer Croc and clay face . So, you can’t say one is better because they both were great. But, c’mon Ledger was the best Joker. Keaton the best Batman
Heath Ledger was the WORST “Joker” ever. like all the villains in Nolan’s movies he wasnt really the joker. just a character with the same name. He was just a thug in makeup, not the Joker.
And for the record Mark Hamil was the best Joker.
your opinions are bad, and you should feel bad.
Sorry, Zack, but TDK blows away not only all the Burton films, but probably every other superhero film made to date, with the possible exception of Donner’s Superman: The Movie.
I do agree that Nolan’s third was weak.
Also, you need to get over your hate of Prometheus. That was an outstanding film.
Having read your article, I’d be curious to hear your critique of Man of Steel.
Apart from Bale’s voice, Nolan’s trilogy wins for me. It’s outside the box and game-changing. It’s built to be a trilogy, with better consistency than Burton’s. The themes have more complexity, depth and nuance…I believe the characters do as well. The villains are terrifying–Burton’s are quirky and humorous. You can argue about the form of the vehicles, but the action sequences shot using Nolan’s are exhilarating.
The soundtrack? Apples and oranges here. Elfman’s melody is memorable because it’s a melody. Zimmer chose a more modern minimalist concept–audiences will remember the minor third motive however. Both composers fit the director’s opposing styles.
Nice article. What I find amazing is that in a summer that gave us Godzilla, Captain America: The Winter Soldier, GoTG, etc. we are still talking about the Burton Batman franchise 25 years after it was released and the Nolan Batman franchise 9 years after it was released. That just shows how awesome both versions are…
Well stated points all around. I enjoyed “Begins” and “The Dark Knight” for what they were,but I completely agree with the fact that Nolan missed the point completely. Another culprit you have to add to the equation is David Goyer, the screenwriter. He lifted several plot points in that first film from iconic comic storylines (Year One and The Long Halloween). This is why I think “Begins” was a better Batman film than “TDK”. Let’s face it. Nolan’s trilogy was made for people who think they are too intellectual to enjoy “comic book films”. They are as pretentious as they are long. “Rises” was an unmitigated disaster and you could drive a train through the plot holes. I would also go as far to say that “Rises” was just as bad as anything Schumacher did…and that is saying A LOT.
You guys are both entitled to your absurdly stupid
opinions. Burton turned the penguin into a monster . What you were watching in Burton’s 2nd Batman was Pee Wee’s 3rd adventure.
Talk about being absurdly stupid….
I liked both, but agree with above poster that Burton’s are geared more towards kids, Nolan’s towards adults. Fantasy vs realism. Apples and oranges.
In terms of voice, if realism is the goal, I think Bale’s rendition is fair game. If a person wears a mask and talks to a person they know, the voice obviously must be modified somehow. The deep raspy voice is probably better than using the donald duck or British accent disguise voice.
And I have to agree big-time with Augustine regarding Anne Hathaway. For Shame!!!
I really like the Nolan movies but I agree with all of your points, especially the ones on the music and humor.
1. Batman’s costume should be something discrete to hide in the night with. A big yellow Batman logo defeats that purpose.
2. Batman’s car should protect him with heavy armor and wheels that won’t pop. Burton’s looks like an early 20th century Ferrari on LSD.
3. Burton’s looks like a political cartoon portraying the evils of industrialization. Nolan’s looks like an actual city because it is one
4. I can remember the Dark Knight score. And honestly, who wants to remember the music over the storyline.
5. He uses detective skills to locate Catwoman, learn about Bane, and figure out the evil plan in Batman Begins. The Joker however, left no trail because that was the fucking point. You found one little example to try and prove a point with overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
6. Batman, realistically, should hide his voice to hide his identity. And the deep gargly voice is pretty damn scary. What’s intimidating about Michael Keaton’s voice?
7. Who cares about what the women look like? At least Nolan’s women actively contribute to the storyline instead of being pieces of meat.
8. Your argument made no fucking sense at all because your sentence was incoherent and you had no reasons. But Billy Dee ain’t got shit on Aaron Eckhart.
9. The Bat actually looks like it could take some enemy fire and it does have an autopilot, that was the linchpin of the ending.
10. At what point during the horrors of his parents being murdered and people getting killed as Batman tries to save people’s lives did you start thinking, “You know this movie should be funnier.” Do you think that Oskar Schindler should have cracked some more jokes too?
There is also a small group of people who can see through 9/11 as a conspiracy, oh wait. Those people are stupid and wrong. And say Nicholson’s joker was better to Ledger’s Oscar.
1) A bulky black motorcycle costume is certainly not “discrete”.
2) The car should also drive along rooftops, but weigh so little that it doesn’t collapse them.
3)And Chicago,Philadelphia, and Detroit are so awe inspiring visually that they look like they are lifted right out of a comic book.
4)The score for any one of Nolan’s films could be synced to any number of modern action films. Zimmer, while talented, is not exactly one for memorable thematic scores. Two bars of Elfman’s Batman theme and you know exactly what it is.
5)He also used those same detective skills to let Catwoman rip off his mother’s jewlery right out from under him.
6) What is scarier…Cookie Monster with emphysema or a low whisper?
7) Yes, the Rachel character provided some much needed character strength..um…wait a sec…wait a sec… didn’t she have to be saved from the clutches of Scarecrow, and the Joker in the second film (Wayne’s party) before meeting her maker tied to a fuel drum?
8) The ONE thing I would agree with you on…although the fact that he was Lando trumps everything.
9)”The Bat” could have been in Avatar or any sci-fi flick…it is NOT nearly as Batman as the Batwing was. Remember, we are making films about a man that dresses up like a BAT.
10) You’re absolutely right. God forbid should a film based on a comic book have anything remotely fun or fantastical about them. It’s Batman….not Schindler’s List.
Oh…and with regards to your last comment…Joker is NEVER an anarchist, but more of a sociopath. He is all about his own amusement, but he’s certainly not dumb enough to burn a huge pile of cash…just for the sake of proving how bad-ass he is. Not to say Ledger didn’t have his moments…but I have to give it to Nicholson as well.
Honestly agree on everything except for the vehicles – the vehicles in Nolan’s movies were uglier but they were way more awesome in use. And nothing from the old movies is ever going to beat the amazing Batpod.
If you’re using the argument that comics were written differently then, you could make the same argument for “10 Ways the Adam West Batman was better than Burton’s.”
And all 10 reasons you outlined would still work for why the TV Batman was better than the rubber-suit Batman of the late 80’s.
Adam West forever!
Apples to oranges. You are comparing a movie that was trying to recreate a comic book to a movie trying to recreate what would best be described as a none comic book. Tim Burton wanted to take Batman off the pages and put him in a world that was from the pages of the comic, where as Christopher Nolan wanted to take Batman and put him in the world described by the comic but in a realistic situation.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion who’s Batman’s are better, but can you at least post the right picture of the city…the first two Nolan pics where in Chicago, the 3rd you have posted was filmed in Pittsburgh and New York ;)
You hit all the nails right on their respective heads. If you want to have a good time watching a Batman movie, you watch Burton. If you want to impress your friends with how trendy and moody you are, you watch Nolan.
Dude…there is no need to apologize or justify what you like. I am in agreement with you that the Burton films were better than the Nolan trilogy. That being said, the Burton Batman films were done in a time where the comics were written differently. The Nolan films are or this generation and fit appropriately for this era. While I don’t feel they are worthy of the godlike status fans have given them, especially TDK, it ultimately comes down to preference. I believe Burton’s films were better…and I wholeheartedly feel Nicholson’s Joker was better.
You make some powerful arguments, Zack. Every point is valid in my opinion, except for the Harvey
Dent thing, which you had said was tongue-in-cheek anyway. I am a big fan of Nolan and respect his work — including his Dark Knight trilogy — but folks are too quick to anoint his reboot as transcendently visionary and forget all about Burton’s masterful job and all the things he did right. Thank you for calling them out on the ridiculous voice characterization (Kevin Conroy is the Batman voice king of all time!) and for having the unmitigated cojones to cite the comparison in “heroines,” which favors Burton by a galactic margin (sorry, Katie & Maggie).
Ironically, in the final analysis, I find myself stuck in the throes of a paradoxical quagmire: I am not a fan of Burton in general, yet I admire and prefer his take on Batman, while being a very big fan of Nolan who thinks he missed the mark in some very key ways.
Persuasive essay. Well done!
Interesting points. Agree with 1, 3-7 and 10.
I still really liked the Nolan movies, although the dialogue was often clunky. Even though, yes it is a guy dressed as Batman, he did a solid job making it seem like it could all be realistic.
And I too think Jack was a better Joker. Ledger was very good, but he couldn’t approach Jack was legendary.
Huge problem with Batman Returns – the stupid armed penguins.
But yes, Burton doesn’t get his due.
“magic orphan vision”
What does that mean?
LOL batman begins is a GOOD movie? batman begins is BETTER than the dark knight. infact batman begins is the best superhero film to date. dark knight rises with its plotholes? LOL dark knight rises in still top 5 superhero films of all time (even tho i dont recall any plotholes)
C’mon. The Dark Knight Rises was a good film, but probably the weakest in the Trilogy. Top 5 superhero movies though?
Finally!!!
Someone has the balls to state the truth. I too am tired of people kissing up and exulting the Nolan versions of Batman. None of the 3 movies in the trilogy made me interested in Batman. I did see them, but left very disappointed. Nolan tried to combine reality (aka Detroit or Chicago type venues) with fantastical superheroes and villains. It wasn’t a good combination as it left people (at least me) feeling that the movies were half unrealistic and half too real and boring.
Also, nothing about the car, costume, or gadgetry screamed BAT. The voice was bad, couldn’t hear anything. All Batman did was talk, badly, and punch. No acrobatics or special moves. The female roles were worthless, it didn’t make me care if they died or not. And who the heck was Lucius Fox?! He basically did everything in the last movie since bats was in “prison”. All in all, I felt the Nolan trilogy featured a smart, kinda tough, man who saves the day with lots of help, not the legendary Batman.
You really took the Nolan movies down a peg by stating you get boners for blonde ladies way more than you do for hideous dark haired girls.
No no, let’s ignore the larger point of how it’s incredibly lame in the Nolan movies Batman is reduced down to a dude bro who is only motivated to impress a girl and reduce four women in poorly written parts down to their looks. Nice work, Zilch.
Wow. Way to not get a joke. I apologize if my attempt at humor went over your head. I’ll try to dumb it down for you next time.
Plus you spell “Zach” wrong. It should be “Zack”.
Way to read only 10% of what he says and then blast him for it. Do you usually make it your practice to ignore everything someone argues and just bitch about a single phrase or sentence?
Oh shit, I said bitch, now everything I said is going to be ignored except that one word and I’m going to get yelled at.
Sarcasm.
Except for the women and Harvey Dent I’d agree with you. Kind of unsure about who exactly played a better Joker, too. But the whole world certainly was a lot more Batman-y when Burton was in charrge.
Nolan’s world was too corporate and “realistic”, no room there for Penguins and Man-Bats or creatures like Clayface, Poison Ivy, etc.
Gotham needs to be off-kilter, deranged, and that needs to be there in the visuals as well.
Good article! Personally, being a young child during the Burton films, I too prefer his take over Nolan’s. Sure, Nolan did the whole gritty realism thing very well but it was Burton’s twisted, sometimes cartoonish fantasy world that was WAY MORE appealing to kids and with Batman being a character usually meant for kids, I think Burton wins in terms of audience appeal. Nolan’s Bat-universe is cold, serious, and at many times, unappealing.
This was a funny read, but I think you went a little far there buddy.
On the Women part. All you had to do was say Katie Holmes and your argument would have been enough. Seeing that woman act on screen is worse than getting kicked in the face. Although shame on you for not putting Anne Hathaway on that list. Shame!!!!!
You are ridiculous. The only two points that are remotely relevant are the females (Maggie Gyllenhaal looks like a bulldog) and the voice thing. There is no defending bale on this one.
The car, the city, the suit? They’re not as good because they are more realistic? Stop it.
And I thought memento was a lazy, overrated film. So the Nolan hype is one thing. But theNolan’s batman movies were just way way better.
Ridiculous eh? Thems fightin’ words. But seriously I get it. Everyone in the world thinks that The Dark Knight Trilogy is the nectar of the cinema gods. I’m looking forward to Nolans take on Superman where he wears a rocket pack and hydrolic gauntlets that simulate super strength. Let’s explain away every superhero convention in practical real world terms because a comic book movie is no place for whimsey. Oh and every fight should be like the fights with Bane:The hero and villain should just stand there and trade blows. Should we have our incredibly athletic vigilante maybe flip around and not stand toe to toe with his physically stronger opponent? Nah.
Nolan was trying to go for a more real/ grounded Batman where as Burton was doing what Burton does, dark and visual. Its hard to compare whats better as they both reflect the culture at they time they were made. Lets see what Snyder brings to the table. Also stating Billy Dee was a better Dent simply because he was in Star Wars is weak.
I know it’s a weak argument, it was largely a joke. I really would have liked to see Billy Dee get to be Two Face though.
I’ll give you the rest, but I think you’re selling Aaron Ekhart short. He was easily the best acted and best written character in the whole Nolan series… up until he got disfigured and decided to get revenge on everybody EXCEPT the person who disfigured him.
I agree. I was pretty much joking about the Billy Dee Williams thing.
This article seems slighty biased against Nolan.
Well yeah but only because I am sick of seeing people praising Christopher Nolan left and right for doing what was essentially making Batman as un-batman as he could to apply to movie snobs that wouldn’t take a real Batman movie seriously. Case in point, Batman Mask Of The Phantasm was possibly the best theatrical Batman movie but no one ever talks about it because it’s a cartoon. Also, I love Nolan as a director, Memento is one of my favorite movies. He just shouldn’t have done Batman.
This! I’m also sick of people clamoring about what an epic legend Heath Ledger was as the Joker just because he died right after playing the part. Lets face it, if he had survived people by now would have been calling him out as a meth fiend in melted crayon like he portrayed him as.
“Aaron Ekhart is a great actor and he did a great job as Harvey Dent, but not even he beats Billy Dee Williams.”
WTF?
Billie Dee Williams was Lando Calrissean. That makes him infinity better than Aaron.
Dark Knight movies were still better.
Well you’re entitled to your opinion.
Just like you’re entitled to yours. Damien’s only saying the same thing you did from the other perspective.
Thanks for explaining that one for me.